Tuesday, January 29, 2008

Dogs and Indians Are Not Allowed

....to be accused as racists. Says so Mr.Pawar.

"The judge has given a proper judgement. BCCI was consistently taking only one stand that it was practically impossible for us to accept the racist charges against any Indian player." - Sharad Pawar

44 comments:

I said...

This is why the third world should remain third world. Civility and order are preserved only as long as the Anglosphere dominates.

Anonymous said...

While Pawar's statement is absurd, your blind obsession with the Aussies is even more ridiculous. Forget for a moment about the racism angle, but look at the big picture. The Aussies have been abusing teams for years, and now when someone gives it back to them, they go to the umpires whining? If they cant take it back, they should shut their mouths.

Hawkeye said...

I,

:-)

anon,

/*blind obsession with the Aussies is even more ridiculous. */

???? where did you get this?

I am for sledging. I like the fact that indians are sledging now, even if they do it poorly.

/*If they cant take it back, they should shut their mouths */

why?

sundar said...

I think because you highlight the Indian Media, BCCI and Indian fans' shortcomings (history of your posts for reference), it paints a picture that you favor Aussies. It may be fair if you highlight the Aussie mentality as well.

Symonds said he had objected because "a Test match is no place to be friendly with an opposition player" but Hansen dismissed that explanation ("If that is his view I hope it is not one shared by all international cricketers").

Isn't this also equally or in fact more ridiculous (because this comes from a player)?

If they initiate sledging, why shouldn't they take it back?

Hawkeye said...

sundar,

/* If they initiate sledging, why shouldn't they take it back? */

one of the basic concepts behind attacking someone is to resist when they attack back.

in essense if a person slaps someone he is not obligated to turn his cheek for a return compliment.

Anonymous said...

Sharad Pawar was out of Line- No doubt, But Harsha Bhogle says this at the end of his article- Oh so perfect.

"We were a country finding our feet, we were not confident, we seethed within but we accepted. The new generation in India is not as accepting, they are prouder, more confident, more successful. Those bottled-up feelings are bubbling through. This is the great dawn of acceptance. It is a phase both countries must understand, this is the storm before the lull. Let's play cricket. We're only a small family"

I am also with Ranatunga on this one. Lets ban sledging. Otherwise, ICC needs to have a code of conduct for sledging as well. As in you cant call black players Monkey. And if you play against teams in the subcontinent then you cant abuse your father mother grandmother, servant, wife etc because its not part of our 'Culture'..., so on and so forth...
What i really cant understand is, there is no problem if one person abuses another person's mother on the field..but race.. OH no..thats unacceptable...
Australia got away with it for too long. India finally said, alright- lets do this your way then. Aussie ego gets hurt, they go whining...I disagree with the method, but hey we had to flex our muscles you know :)

Anonymous said...

oops- actually it only makes sense with this one as well -

"So why is India so sensitive about what is happening in Australia? Since I was a little child, my abiding memory is of visiting journalists and cricketers coming to India and making fun of us.

We were a country finding our feet, we were not confident, we seethed within but we accepted. The new generation in India is not as accepting, they are prouder, more confident, more successful. Those bottled-up feelings are bubbling through. This is the great dawn of acceptance. It is a phase both countries must understand, this is the storm before the lull. Let's play cricket. We're only a small family"

Hawkeye said...

anon,

/*I disagree with the method, but hey we had to flex our muscles you know */

i agree. Is pointing out that - we are becoming the people we used to hate before - wrong?

Anonymous said...

Not true. Sometimes we got to use our power to get the right verdict. I believe it was the right verdict since there was no 'substantiated evidence' that harbhajan used that word. So punishing him was unfair. Mike procter did exactly that.
Once viru got banned for over appealing. It was not about him getting banned, it was whether they were keeping that standards for everyone. obviously they did not, then why target one?I believe there is racism in Cricket. And i believe that the likes of Mike Procter, Darrell Hair, Mike Denness have all issued verdicts in the past against Asian countries with a bias by not following the rules of the game and by not following the right decisions to make a judgement. When there is a precedence and you are stepping out to correct it, you either flex your muscles, like how BCCI has done so far or follow the be-patient-eventually-the-wrong-gets-punished route. We decided to go the Subhash Chandra Bose route and not the gandhain way. Fair enough!!! If u like sledging, why havent u liked the aggression that Indian media, Indian supporters and the Indian players have shown so far in this issue?? :) Hail the New India :) Again, Sharad Pawar is a badass, no denying that. And he has spoken the wrong words, but you cannot deny that Indians had no right to appeal this case, let harbhajan play and win this case on just one basis. No evidence dude. Why doesnt anybody understand that :)
Besides, tendulkar was a witness and i know he always tells the truth because i am an indian, just as you would swear that if you were an aussie then clarke and hayden are the most honest and they would never lie. So what now? :) umpires, match referees, stump microphones, underwears of players - nothing can corroborate this case. no neutral witness. case dismissed? correct judgment, right? so what if we had to flex our muscles to get this right? :) tell me...

Hawkeye said...

anon,

i onli asked whats wrong in pointing it out? you have obviously pointed out the same or worser things about india yourself. why cant i do it?

Anonymous said...

Hawkeye,

Indians are The Most Racist people in the world. They judge ppl based on colour. One needs only to look at any matrimonial ad , which asks for a "fair" bride/groom. Look at the abundance of fairness creams, and the ads that show that in order for a woman(and now even men) to get married, or get a job, or even function she needs to be a few shades fairer. Fairness creams are one of the top consumer products in our country. I myself have been laughed at in school for being the darkest in the class, and some of my more fair skinned classmates were afraid that if i got too close to them, my color would rub off on them. And this is in an indian school !

And let us not even get into the small matter of caste/creed/regionism.

Hawkeye said...

anon2,

nandri. completely agree.

I said...

Anaon X. You are confusing race with color.

Anonymous said...

I agree- anon2 and hawkeye are confusing race with color...entirely different.
And HE, i didnt mean to reiterate what you were trying to say. I didnt know your stand. I still dont :)
Btw- Mukul Kesavan is back and spot on as always.
Read this -
http://blogs.cricinfo.com/meninwhite/archives/2008/01/shock_and_awe_1.php

Anonymous said...

oops...didnt see the whole link -
http://blogs.cricinfo.com/meninwhite/archives/2008/01/shock_and_awe_1.php

chengayan said...

Hi,
Mukul Kesavan has rightly said that it was the Indian Team and not BCCI who have flexed their muscles.In his words, 'Left to itself, the Board would have hung Harbhajan up to dry'. I completely agree with him.

Hawkeye has asked why the aussies should shut their mouth? Because his precious Mr.Ponting has lamented that the happenings has taken its toll on himself and Mr.Symmonds and Mr.Symmonds doesn't want any of this.If they doesn't want any of this, they should shut their traps. Simple Right?

Anonnymous u r spot on when u say, we don't know the stand of Hawkeye.May be he himself is little confused. If he likes sledging and want Indians to sledge why he doesn't have anything to say when stupid Procter punished Harbajan? He has so much of derisive things to say abt the indian media, BCCI and what not.So nothing for him to say when one player is punished for sledging? He has also cleverly avoided saying anything about the stupid verdict of Mr Procter and adroitly turned a blind eye towards the cry baby behavior of his precious Mr.Ponting.

sundar said...

@hawkeye's reply:
I agree. the basic concept is to resist. but the way the Aussies behaved (going to the umpire) in my opinion, is not resisting.

/*Is pointing out that - we are becoming the people we used to hate before - wrong?*/

No. However I fail to understand whom do you stand by. People change over time. Are you saying the change is for good/bad? I think it's for the good because now Aussies know the ramifications of carrying their culture to the international arena.

And I also agree that the players were united and it is they who flexed their muscles first and BCCI followed suit by sending charter planes ;).

Anonymous said...

I agree.. Hawkeye is an aussie :)

Hawkeye said...

chengaiyan,

i give you 'desa-patru' award.

Hawkeye said...

Why is taking a stand so important?

sundar said...

good question. not taking a stand makes me think u may have a neutral opinion about the whole thing.. but to be neutral, shouldn't u portray both the sides of the coin..;)

Hawkeye said...

sundar,

explainingg oneself is passe. i would like to mutru-pullify it. taking a stand is that pawar is stupid is also a stand. i am not obligated to take a stand on every other dimension of an issue and bring a comprehensive picture. nobody can do it. but to answer your question;

if you strip this of all patriotism and all remove all the big picture hype and see it as 2 people sparring in a boxing match. both the indian team and the australian team seem to be doing the natural things. autralia is still much better at sledging than india is - as India is a team that is still learning the right way to do it.

its a small side thing. 'sappi matter' as we would say. more like a means to an end. what is funny is the way its being messaged outside and the way it is being projected by "respected" media people like bhogle as if its the definition of new india.

I would have been happy with a 2-1 indian victory and harbajan had gone to jail rather than all this 'india is mighty now' posturing which is in effect a losers consolation price - for losers. take some anon for instance who used the word "we" in "we are mighty now...flexing now". Who is "we" here?

as we say in college 'summa ellam scenu. oru mairukkum velaikku avathu. matcha win pannungada atha vittuputtu....'

Anonymous said...

fair comment. But what is your neutral stand? I feel ticked because you have been picking on the smaller issues on how BCCI has handled it without addressing the bigger picture while "respectfully" comparing indians and dogs... So show me your neutral stand now and compare aussies to pigs :)
Else, you remain an aussie voice...:)
remember what Hansen said, Symonds started it, he abused Harbhajan, harbhajan responded and yet guess who got punished? Harbhajan..:(. Because he responded to an abuse with an abuse.
Now CA and Ponting without any shame or courteousness is actually upset that his punishment was lenient, conviniently forgetting that the instigator (Symonds) never got punished and India and Kumble hasnt said or voiced against this at all. Maybe because we didnt complain abt Symonds, but nevertheless courtesy is courtesy.
So, i put forward my theory that if Indians are dogs, Aussies are definitely pigs :)
Ithukku, mathavanga jalra verey..thu...

Hawkeye said...

anon,

first understand the title. as per legend there used to be board in some recreational places in british-ruled india saying "dogs and Indians not allowed". only vellaikaran was allowed into those places. china has similar legend too.

che.. brevity has no value.

Anonymous said...

India winning 2-1 - hmm, lets see -If Bucknor and Benson were not the umpires for the Sydney test, that scoreline could very well have been a reality. 8 out of 10 wrong decisions went against India, not to mention Dravid and Ganguly in the 2nd innings. Taking aside patriotism for a moment, anyone with some knowledge of cricket knows how important Dravid was in that inning.

As it turns out, the series could well have been 1-1 or even 2-1 in India's favor. Portraying them as losers is again your Aussie obsession. You are taking a stance against India and it would make things simple if you stop being hypocritical and proclaim that you indeed are an Aussie in desi form. Nothing wrong with taking stances, but while taking pro-India stances is termed as blind patriotism, taking pro-Aussie stance is called what? That is what all the guys in the comments section are asking you.

If you can just state that you are an Aussie, there would be no further need to explain yourself. We would treat your cricket posts as just another article in smh, or the australian or any other aussie paper and just shy away. We are not asking you to be 'patriotic', but just a little clarity in your stance.

Karthik Sriram said...

Hawkeye,

Thought u might be interested in this - the official hearing document from hansen

http://usa.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/2007-08/IND_IN_AUS/icc_commissioner_decision_30012008.pdf

Hawkeye said...

anon,

who is 'we' in your usage of 'we'.

unna paatha ennakku chippu chippa varthu.

Anonymous said...

"we" refers to the people who comment here with pretty much the same questions as i have. anyway, it is moot since you somehow seem to have inherited aussie boneheadedness despite being a very interesting blogger otherwise. just a piece of advice -dont be so quick to trash patriotism saying that it is mere chest-thumping. even this so-called blind patriotism is a big boost to people like my relatives who serve for the country in the army. if you have even a clue about their daily lives, your opinions will change. your attitude is typical of people who live in a bubble having no clue about how hard people work to protect our country.
i would like to laugh at you, but i feel sorry. unfortunately, for people like you, a big fall is usually what shakes up things.

Hawkeye said...

anons,

kalakare....

if only you had put this comment up first. i would have treated you with different level of respect.

sariya sonna thaane 'we'-kku puriyum.

Suresh said...

even this so-called blind patriotism is a big boost to people like my relatives who serve for the country in the army.

ROTFL. who is this idiot? I am still laughing like crazy. People like this makes me think that you are not criticising such patriotic idiots enough.

Ram Prasadh said...

Juz a comical touch to this entire episode and to cool of the heated debate goin on. It is just my imagination. ensaai :))

Cast: Ponting as Vadivelu, Symonds, Clarke,Hayden as Ponting's henchmen, and Harbhajan as Kattathurai (although the physical structure doesn't match :-) )

"thalaiva..thalaiva..namma Symonds-aa monkey-nu sollitan oruthan..."

Aavesa Ponting veliyae varaar... "evan da sonnan?"

"Namma opposing Indian team Bhajji..."

" Indian team pasangaluku sledging naa ennanu theriyala..athaan sledging masteraana namalluku bhathil adi kodukarthey ivangaluku velaiya pochu."

Ponting and other team members(Clarke, Symonds and Hayden) aavesama poranga Indian team dressing roomku... Ponting ketkarar

"Evan da avan en aaala Monkey-nu sonnathu?"

Indian team Bhajji thirumbi paarkarar..

Bhajji: "Enna sonne..seriya ketkale...pakkam vanthu sollu"

Ponting : Un dressing roomku naan vara maaten... En aalai anupparen..avanukku bathil sollu

(sends in clarke)

Clarke : Evanda enga team mateaa Monkeynu sonnathu
Bhajji becomes tense..

Ponting calls from behind : Deiii..

Bhajji : Enna?

Ponting : Nee oru appanuku poranthana antha oozhak (vanthi/vomit) vaarthaiya sollu paapom.

Bhajji opens his mouth and not only says Monkey but abuses Ponting, Symonds and others of his race, creed, ethnicity, caste etc... A shocked Ponting tries to escape from that place.. athukkulla the Indian team surrounds him...

Ponting : ungalaiyellam paartha enakku paavama irukku
Bhajji (smiles)

Ponting : Ennayum, ennoda team matesyum yaarum ippadi thitinathu illa.

Bhajji : 2 maasam munnadi thaaney Symondsaa kaevalama Indiala thittinen.

Ponting : Athu pona maasam. naan solrathu intha maasam

Bhajji opens his mouth again and starts to abuse Ponting and co.

Ponting : Venaam.... (After incessant abuses, slows down) Venaam........ Venaam.... Valikkuthu...... Azhuthuduven...... (starts crying) Azhuthuduven...... ippave integrity illanu ellarum solraanga...ini mel ungalala sledging talent illama aayidum.... (cries)

Bhajji : Antha periya ketta vartha list eduda maaple

Ponting : athu ennathu?
Bhajji : ICC code of conduct number sollu da maaple...

As Ponting looks in terror, Bhajji keeps abusing Ponting and co.

A dejected Ponting comes back to his dressing room... Apppo other ppl talks among themselves..

"ivangalae ivalo tensionaa varaangalae. ivanga sledge pannavanga inneram charter flightla ooru poi saernthu irupaanga."

Ponting : ippadi usupethi vittu usupethi vitte udamba ranagalam paduthitaanga paa...

Ponting to his team mates - Yenda, innumada nammala ellarum sledging masternu nambaraanga??

Anonymous said...

ada vidunappa - hawkeye is not pro-aussie - he is just 'different' from the average indian cricket fan. That is his point. It is not about Harbhajan, Pawar or Ponting. This is about hawkeye. This is his blog, afterall. Ellarum oru dhaba ennoda serndhu sollunga - hawkeye nallavaru, vallavaru, unbiased, rational, sensible, intelligent observer. He is not stupid like Harsha Bhogle, Sunil Gavaskar, Boria Majumdar or Mukul Kesavan.
NOTE: we will not take a stand on whether 'hawkeye is not stupid like Peter Lalor, Peter Roebuck, Alex Brown or Chote Saltau'.

Idhai vuttutu, aussie supporter, mayiru mattainukittu. Naalaikku if beign an aussie supporter becomes the majority opinion, our great hawkeye will take an opposite position. Appadipatta avaru mela abandama pazhi podadheenga

raj said...

..to add to above, ananthai solradhu correettu- we should have been happy with bhajji, bonda going to jail. Loosu paya vaaya kuduthu maattikittan. Avangatti pothikinu irundhirundha, we could have played the moral high ground game. Ippo, what did we achieve: Strip the hype and stick to facts
1. Harbhajan got fined for misdemeanour
2. Hogg didnt get punished. Symonds didnt
3. Sometime back, Aussies held a banner saying Indians 43 counts of punishment from ICC, Aussies only 25. Now it is 44 vs 25.
4. Aussies are the real winners - they won the series, they increased the ICC punishment count of Indians while managing to escape themselees, and they have also succesfully built a 'boorish india trying to browbeat others' image. I am bowled over by their strategy - for ex-convicts from England, this is amazing sagacity. I mean, I would have not been surprised if MCC members showed such chanakyathanam. But ex-convicts who were chased off to a god-forsaken land precisely because they lacked the smartness of Old Englanders to not get caught committing their offences, this is indeed brilliant evolution.

Anonymous said...

annathey, appadiye oru requesttu - namma media-vai vudunga. Vetti pasanga.
"Money talks, Indiakaaranga cricket-ai lavuttikinu poraanga, aiyo, kuyyo, muraiyonu" kathikinu keedhungale , merkathi media loosunga - adhai pathi inna karuthu vechu keerenga athai sollunga.

chengayan said...

Hi Hawkeye,
Very honoured. But u can take ur award shove it in ur u know where!

Hawkeye said...

raj,

at the bottom of the list starting with icc punishments - plisss to add an unimportant detail series score 1-2. i know we didn't go there to win the series but help relatives in the army. but still.

chengaiyan,

enna aachu? ivalavu kovam.

Suresh said...

hawkeye,

good point about "we". Looks like the people who comment here became suddenly so powerful enough to flex their muscles to cricket australia.

Hawkeye said...

Suresh,

ya :-) the sense of entitlement over silly cover up job is perplexing. i checked my paystub yesterday and it hadn't increased. my muscles hadn't increased too. nor my power status. I don't know how 'we' became powerful so suddenly.

unless some people think BCCI = 'we' . especially when BCCI themselves claimed to high court that they dont represent 'india'.

well you have to hand it to BCCI. nobody is talking about the series loss, the melbourne defeat, the poor planning that went into the series, bad strategies. BCCI are now the guardians of india's honor.

maybe MGR needs to come back and sing "emaarathe.."

Hawkeye said...

anon,

"Money talks, Indiakaaranga cricket-ai lavuttikinu poraanga, aiyo, kuyyo, muraiyonu" kathikinu keedhungale , merkathi media loosunga - adhai pathi inna karuthu vechu keerenga athai sollunga.

if india wins series and indian players are treated fairly by BCCI, one does not have to worry about what the aussie media says. Such criticism is to be expected when you are successful. If at all one decides to get criticised at least be successful.

Anonymous said...

To state the obvious:
It was NOT wrong for The BCCI and players to stay together and make an appeal against the initial racial charge.

What was wrong was that the BCCI threatened to pull out of the tour if the racial charge was not overturned. Now if every single person that has been accused or charged has the clout to make such an impact on the outcome of the hearings, there would be NO justice in the world.

You have to allow the process of justice to take its course. Anyone however powerful they may be cannot be allowed to interfere with it. BCCI did just that, interfere with the process which is deplorable behavior.

This comment is only pertaining to whether BCCI was right in doing what it did. This does mean I am anti-BCCI or pro-BCCI - It just means I think BCCI was wrong in this circumstance.

--SR

Anonymous said...

hawk, you didnt even read my comment completely. Not that that's surprising - if I were that interesting, I would have a blog myself :-)
But note the point, I mentioned Aussies won series somewhere in the beginning.

Looks like you still dont want to openly call the aussie media stupid explcitly. I cant think of a reason for that but why would you avoid that - applying the same logic that you applied to Indian media, the "India is flexing its muscles" response is equally, if not more, stupid. When someone points it out, you merely parrot "India didnt win the series". I dont know why you can't say that explicitly. Not that you need to. But I want to record your clever avoidance of the issue. I think there might be livelihood issues you have with calling westerb nedua stupid :-)

Anonymous said...

From what I've seen, the Indians are masters of 'reverse-racism'.
They are certainly not ready to be trust into the western world 21st century... imagine going from cr*pping in the street to flushing toilets... mindblowing!!!

Anonymous said...

India has given the world civilization,
Aryans originated from India.

Right now we are in a Bad State, because of various reasons.


We are not a third world country, You Aussies are....

Anonymous said...

basically indians are fully corrupt