Sunday, March 21, 2010

rm -rf *.Nanda

My thoughts on the scandal. Note: Post limited in scope to Hinduism and people who have some sort of religious belief.

People are Morons: I think 9 out of 10 people who criticize Nithyananda will anyday choose to follow Nithyananda types as opposed to a bonafide Sanyasi, who propagates religion in a very sincere and puristic fashion. People fundamentally have forgotten what religion looks, smells and feels like. Probably because they are so sold on a liberalized definition of religion to the point where - if religion was a cow, people would argue their asses off to claim that a cow need not moo, it need not have 4 legs, it need not give milk, it need not eat grass etc etc in order for it to be considered a cow. The liberals among the religious want the loosest definition of religion possible. A definition that is totally predicated on people not doing any work.

Consider this example which happens often in today's world. Some people approach a true Yathee, who puristically adheres to a samparadayam and practices his belief with near perfect sincerity and ask him for religious advise. This sanyasin will ask them to read a lot of books, do trikala sandhyavandanam, visit temples, learn slokas, practice aahara niyamanam, wear dresses appropriate for temple/visiting a religious person, and probably ask people to join classes that require time, effort and commitment. This is certainly very boring for people who want fast food. So they say "right..." and find someone who can redefine religion that fits their schedule (which is about 5 - 10 minutes devoted to religious activities per week). And one who allows them to visit an ashram in jeans and tees.

Enter *.Nanda.

And the 'many right ways' fallacy: While any religious text worth reading stresses that if a person does not do trikala sandhyavandanam then there no point in him trying to attain god, the *.nanda will calmly tell people that "there is no single way to approach god". This, in spite of having no logic, for some reason has extra-ordinary appeal to people. Maybe because it makes people think they can never be wrong. Sort of boosts their ego. Apparently "more than one solution" lands in people's mind as "anything you do is a solution". So people's new mantra suddenly is "many ways to approach god and everybody is right in whatever they do". This allows them to alter duration/date/time of religious functions, not visit temples (the "kadavul manasula irundha porum" clause ), change every rule that falls in the religious category by claiming "this is all superstition. Changing this is not wrong. There is no one right way to approach god". This is until they find out that *.nanda considers humping actresses as one such way to approach god. Now, it appears, there are a few wrong ways to approach god. Reminds me of case interview coaching in MBA days which has the same mantra of "there is no one right way to solve a case". The fools who took it literally and solved cases any which way realized that there were a billion wrong ways to solve cases and only a few miniscule proportion of right ways. And those few right ways had a huge common denominator.

Basic Knowledge: Most of these new hi-tech Saamiyars are not trained in religon. They do not know anything about it. Regardless of people's atheistic/theistic views, most would readily agree that in order for anyone to be a guide for people in field 'X' they need to actually know 'X'. In the past and with certain muths in the present, people who are appointed as religious heads of a religious institution are those who have undergone 18-20 years of education in the field of religion. They don't go to school and study 4th standard 12th standard etc. They actually go to an alternate school and get educated on the agamas, learn the 4 vedas, sastras. On top of it they learn aagara/aahara niyamanam, method of conducting rituals. Then they live another 20 years, either practicing their education or getting deep into philosophies on which their religion is based. They display their knowledge to the public with their commentaries on fairly nuanced stuff, they conduct upanyasams and generally establish a track record. Very similar to how any business professional would go about creating a track record in a company. They are then chosen to lead a religious institution.

*.nanda does not know anything about Sanaathana Dharma. In one particular lecture of his, my friend asked Nithyananda a basic question on Bhagavad Geetha and Nithyananda side-stepped the question and threw back some bull-crap in English. He has not had any sort of formal training in religion. I can superficially say that he is a 'dubagoor' by looking at his face. But a deeper look at his youtube videos bring you to same inevitable conclusion. To be sure that mine is not a caste argument and that I am not dissing the Sai Babas, the Maatas and *.nandas because they are non-brahmins : You don't need to a brahmin to be a head of a religious institution (as a lot of Azhwars and Saivite/Vaishnavaite Saints have shown). However, there is a specific set of criteria one has to meet, rituals one has to perform and standards one has to adhere to in order for him to be considered valid. It is like holding a doctor's license. The *.nanda seeks to side-step all this lack of training by connecting with 'youth' in English, using their charisma to earn respect, and saying a few obvious things about pressures faced by kid in "the IT world". This sleight of hand and a few superficial Bhagavad Geetha quotes ensures that his knowledge is never bought into the question.

This perfect marriage between people who say "I want religion in 30 days" and Swamijis who offer "If you want to give peanuts then my monkey can hump you" gives rise to the *.nanda phenomena.

The anti-Hindu Media: Firstly media outlets, especially in Tamil Nadu, are surgically precise in pointing out scandals in hinduism. Their concept of liberalism is filtered and laser sharp machine that deals only in negatives about hinduism. So something like this will never get the kind of TV attention that a *.nanda scandal gets. Infact media outlets are afraid to carry news of a certain kind.

Secondly, the hidden agenda becomes obvious once such scandals break loose. Its a clear missionary advt to people by Sun TV that says "Dear people - all saints in hinduism are like this. Go convert to other religions". Essentially a quack like *.nanda (who claims to be an incarnation of God) is merged and spoken in same terms as a head of a 1000 year old Muth (whose job description reads - coach/guide). And it is very easy for people to fall for it. Cross-belts who you think will know better (in reality they don't but that is differet story) - for the sake of peer pressure or for sake of saying something - contribute to the merge by saying "all are like this wonly". Sometimes, I have these visions of becoming the monarch of thamizh Nadu or a a Dravida Kazhagam activist and dream of yanking out the cross-belts out of the idiots who go and worship Saibaba, nithyananda, Kalki, maataji (amma), amritananda mayee, arabindo mother, and other such nonsense. Not that I'd spare the non-cross-belts. They'd just get a different treatment. Naming their kids MairapudingiNanda, Sayee Kumar, Payee Kumar, in order to show their bhakthi. And acting all enraged when they find out about sex scandals. What else were they expecting from people who claim to be god themselves?

The law: Running a fake university is illegal, operating w/o a doctor's license is illegal but being a fake sanyasi is apparently not a legal subject. And so *.nanda can walk free. Separation of church and state, especially when Narakasuran is ruling TN may be a good idea for the protection of hinduism. But the reason hinduism will speed towards death is neither Narakarsuran nor the italian-pumped-in-money to Nagercoil churches and missionaries. It is the lack of quality enforcement with the religion and the ability of any idiot to all himself a God man. At least write an exam on the 4 vedas for god's sake.

Disclaimer: While I consider him to be a victim of money/property polictics, I may not consider Jayendra Saraswathi to be a valid Saint either.

109 comments:

zeno said...

I liked the disclaimer very much. I felt,it makes a lots of difference to the post and adds value to all things you say

Vijayashankar said...

it should be *.ananda

Anonymous said...

Interesting post. But you did not have to crucify the people who do not believe in old rituals. They might be doing so of own will and not because some *.nanda asked them to do so.

Plus, a lot of these rituals, do not actually make sense. The only logic probably behind them is that the cast barriers had to be made more rigid.

I agree with the Kerala thing though. It is indeed a shame that in our country, being secular means bashing the majority and their values.

Venkat said...

to digress : why insult the cross belts ? are you actually saying that their views are solicited ?
it's a little annoying to see them being dragged into unrelated topics to be insulted..

but yes, the liberals among the religious are the most galling of all....

Anonymous said...

Great post....agree to most of your comments if not all!!!

Anonymous said...

With your disclaimer you have once again proved that you are one number vadigattina 'stump'

Anonymous said...

Very good post except for the disclaimer. Considering your definitions of the saint primarily being a knowledgeable person in vedas and other rituals and the very fact that jeyandra saraswati was educated/trained in such things by paramacharya himself, goes to show the extent of a "guide/head" he is. Also, the case in which they first put him in is just out of any scrutiny now, just goes to show that they just did not have any proof/evidence whatsoever.

-
Praveen

Gradwolf said...

Thanks for writing this. And the unix geek shows up yet again!

Anonymous said...

Nice post!!
Unfortunately, the link(Kerala priest) uve given in blog isn';t working.. probably more money is being pumped from elsewhere 2 block such links! :)

blackaccord said...

Unfortunately, everything revolves around the money/property politics these days... If you are ready to shell out some serious money, any mutt's jeeyar would be ready to fly over anywhere in the world ..There are scams and scandals (not sexually related but atleast personal motivated) in every mutt which makes you wonder are they real sanyasis or heads??

I remember during our college days that we used to have those huge 1000+ page books written by jain&jain, mittal, etc and most of the guys didnt have the time, patience (and ofcourse knowledge) to read those books and vomit on paper.. So they would read a book written by Prof. Mani (from adiparasakthi college) or some prof. senthil (From sankara college etc).. The book is simply ' control systems in 1 night' or 'Digital logic design in 2 days' kinda stuff.. If you read that and vomit, you can certainly score 50-60...That is the stuff that *.nanda does.. Read 10 books.. Underline/mark stuff and create your own book.. Many ppl fall for that and they've got their own spiritual guru.. They have a huge picture of him in their living room and a miniature stick-on in their car.. They name their personal business with the guru's name.. There are so many kutti level saamiyars like this.. The end result as you said is that people forget to worship the ultimate one...

Btw, do you follow 'Enge Brahmanan' in Jaya TV?

Venky said...

I like the post .
I even like the post and the comparison drawn between authors and samiyaars.
Very well written

MaySan said...

Totally like your post, not something u have mentioned before, but it was very very well put.

Anonymous said...

u r a crackpot ,I am not saying this because i support any *.nanda but because the way u write is like Lord Periya Labakku-das
I still come here to read because ur articles makes me laugh

Maddy said...

//At least write an exam on the 4 vedas for god's sake// Loved it..

Anonymous said...

Really good post ! Loved the case interview allegory :))

Mambalam Mani said...

What an outburst. I should say that I feel relieved of all my frustrations in these issues by merely reading through this post.

MLC said...

well writtn! 'idhu aanmeegaththin oru payirchi' nu andhaal sonnadhu was so shockng fr me!! idhukkum maley avan 'dhaivam' nu nambaravangalapathi yennaththa solradhu!!
also, i cud'nt u/stnd why ppl keep trashing ranjitha! she nvr claimed to b a saint in the 1st pl & what she did/does is her business, her life! adhu thappu/seri nu solrathukku ivangalukellam yenna urimai iruku nu puriyalai! ttl hypocrites!!

Anupadmaja said...

"It is the lack of quality enforcement with the religion and the ability of any idiot to all himself a God man. At least write an exam on the 4 vedas for god's sake."

Though it took me a lot longer, this is what I was trying to explain 4 yrs back (till 3 AM :)).

Shanmugam said...

This is exactly what I had in mind and you said it so well. I do not know why "cross belts" have developed so much aversion to their religion. But I find atheism more prevalant in this caste than any other

Raghu said...

Daangg...indha maadhiri oru post ezhudhi irukkennu oru hint koduthurukka koodadhu nethhikki...I kept my loud f*(&^%' mouth to myself y'day...with so many audience keen on hearing what I thought...abt these so-called 'fraud' saamiyaars. I have seen ppl ruining their lives by wasting their time on these short-cuts but what the heck do I know abt hinduism ?!!

This interesting post sure conveys yr unbiased opinion - as always a good read !!

Anu Russell said...

Very well written!!...send it to hindu so they can put it in some sandhu :) seriously...people are stupid...if we did not understand fraud when *.some nanda got caught a few years ago!!!

you know what freaks me out more...there are some of these chinmaya mission places where they have the "child lock in" session with the GURU for an overnight stay...what kind of a parent will allow their child to stay with a holy GODman??? I mean that just smells pedo right?

Anonymous said...

Brilliant!!! Best post to date.

- Hari

Anonymous said...

As George Carlin would say "it's all bullshit folks and it's bad for ya" :-)

P.S: I'm not an atheist.. But all these samiyars are fraud

-Ganesh

Anonymous said...

Very good post/analysis. Also "Black accord's" analogy to reading a 1000+ page book was hilarious and so very true.

"Cross-belts who you think will know better (in reality they don't but that is differet story) - for the sake of peer pressure or for sake of saying something - contribute to the merge by saying all are like this wonly" - This really struck me and could relate to it very well.

- Kunta Kinte

Anonymous said...

//Cross-belts who you think will know better (in reality they don't but that is differet story) - for the sake of peer pressure or for sake of saying something - contribute to the merge by saying all are like this wonly" //

Cross belt or No-cross belt that is the harsh truth my friend.. Ematharavana Vida, Emarravana than uthaikanum....

Ironically Rajini will say that this is what swami chinmayananda told in his lecture to Thengai in Thillu Mullu

-Ganesh

kaipullai said...

One of the other reasons for babajis, chinnaswami, periyaswamis to come into existence is that there is no single authority in Hinduism. There has never been and there would never be. There is no single authoritative institution which could question or disapprove if necessary a self proclaimed swami.

Another one as Hawkeye and few others have pointed out is escapism from spending more time on religious subjects. This comes along with the pressure to portray oneself as "spiritual but not religious" types. Seems like this is a cool thing to say these days. Joining his fan clubs in facebook and orkut would be the next step to announce to the world.

kaipullai said...

I see from your blog that the news about a church priest is not projected by the media. This just might be because he is not a "popular" religious personality. While Nithyananda has a couple of million followers. So a news about him would certainly attract attention.

The media being pro or anti Hindu may not apply here.

Dr.Dheep said...

A nice post. Coulda avoided the rant about italian funded churches though....

Bala said...

>>The anti-Hindu Media: Firstly media outlets, especially in Tamil Nadu, are surgically precise in pointing out scandals in hinduism. Their concept of liberalism is filtered and laser sharp machine that deals only in negatives about hinduism. So something like this will never get the kind of TV attention that a *.nanda scandal gets. Infact media outlets are afraid to carry news of a certain kind.

Junior vikatan, Nakkeran and Kumudam reporter thrive on "padhariyari kama kaliyaattam" type of stories. It is a question of numbers, nithyananda produces more TRP ratings than a priest in nagercoil. (or he has a commercial dispute with the marans). And didn't you watch Sun TV playing up the arrest of the Dutch evangelical for pedophilia in Chennai?

So this shows a)either you don't read/watch vernacular media that much or b) you are just a religious bigot playing "en engala mattum adikkaranga" victim card.

ms said...

for a few days i was confused by the 2 scandals that broke on TV, nityananda and the ichhadhari dude. sometimes i saw the actress-video and then i saw this hairy, muscular dude performing a snake dance. by the time i realised my mistake, the channels had moved on to something else. if you read the regional newspapers, there is a report about religious leaders molesting women and children, almost everyday. the statistics are all incorrect since only a few cases get reported, the other victims hide in shame. every one heard aboout the disclosures about saibaba of lion's mane fame, by the western media and some of our own indian devotees. in north india, these godmen have a smorgasbord of unsuspecting female children offered to them for "rituals" by stupid parents, young brides are sent for "fertility" prayers within the first year of marriage to ensure an heir, widows are handed over to ashrams to "devote their remaining days to the service of god". why are we still shocked by what these celebrity godmen are caught doing? i think, the greater the cash inflow, the more newsworthy the religious leaders. and we are all to blame for blindly following them, in these days of technology and medical discoveries. what about the people who sacrificed 5 out of 11 kidnapped children to become pregnant when all they had to do was walk into a fertility clinic and join an IVF program. or go into the thousands of orphanages and adopt a lonely child. every one is screaming about jennifer haynes and about our "future" being sold to the west. and no one does anything about the abused, starving, grieving millions rotting in these very orphanages. what is wrong about these religious scandals is that it puts to shame all the genuine people too. every religion has scandals, hinduism, buddhism, islam, christianity. we have to be vigilant all the time so that we don't get cheated into following a corrupt monster.

Sreekrishnan said...

why is *DOTnanda? isnt it simply *nanda?

For the remaining i dont have knowledge to comment ! Tiger woods or Nithyananda whatever ...

Vasu said...

Hi Bharath (I gathered your name from comments section). I stumbled across your blog when pointlessly surfing the net! I must agree that you (and your writings) have helped me a great deal in killing time in an otherwise boring office. I especially like the way you infuse utterly hilarious tamil words at unsuspecting junctures. Keep up the good (hilarious and enlightening) work!

Anonymous said...

"I think 9 out of 10 people who criticize Nithyananda will anyday choose to follow Nithyananda types as opposed to a bonafide Sanyasi, who propagates religion in a very sincere and puristic fashion."
Can you name some bonafide sanyasi

Mambalam Mani said...

I heard that Sun TV has moved on to elaborating on the latest escapades of Kalki Bhagawan. I was believing all along that this guy was either beyond bars or gets spat at by anyone he offers his sermons to, but apparently not. Infact, he seems to be constructing some monumental ashram somewhere off the Banglore highway.

Hawkeye said...

bala,

the word 'evangelical' i think never once appeared in any article featuring the dutch man's arrest. at least hindu and the times reported that he was a "social worker" living in chennai for 30 years.

never read anything about 'paadhriyar' in vikatan. kumudham would not report such things because of who runs it. i dont read nakeeran.

Anonymous said...

//Can you name some bonafide sanyasi//

Driven through the covers with aplomb. Not a man move.. LOL

-G.

I said...

Jeeyar is the only saint engiraya? Vainava aadhikkam!

Suresh said...

Ganesh Babu,

You consistently find a way to miss the point of the post and show yourself to be exactly the person the post is making fun of.

Not only has your comprehenision skills not improved after crescent but you have some talent to display this lvel of consistent asininess. Kudos.

Hawkeye said...

I,

innum konjam aduppu kothikattum... appaala bathil sollalam. indha kelviya kooda ethir paakamaiyya post pannuven athuvum disclaimers oda?

suresh,

LOL

Shanmugam said...

G,

What do you mean 'harsh truth'. I am not a cross belt but it is bcoz of cross belts like you that genuine ashrams are seen via nithyananda premananda filter.

nalla thanni adichtu chicken mutton saaptu nee 'harsh truth' pathi expert comments vidaathe.

have you been to sringeri once in your life?

blackaccord said...

hawkeye, naradhar kalagam nanmaiyil thaan mudiyanum...:)

Alan Smithee said...

Rationalists want to substitute "regressive" Hindu morality with an equally regressive "dravidian" morality. I wonder how this is progressive/liberal.

SriThere said...

Agree 100%. Most crossbelts who don't know or do even the basic daily rituals or are insincere themselves are the first people to go and criticise genuine matams.

muthalla indha cross belt kudikaarangala koluthanum.... apporam rest will take care of themselves.

and hawkeye no point in listing genuine sanyasis. Indha loose pasanga athaiyum kindal pannuvanga. Perusa address kekaraanga as if they will book and ticket and go and learn from the acharyas there.

Anonymous said...

SriThere,

LOL

well said. I was thinking the same. Bonafide names ivangalukku edhukku? so defensive. Looks like this post ruffled their feathers.

Anonymous said...

Suresh,

Oh!! Wow!! Thanks for schooling me.The saddest part in any religion is that people looking for some other "genuine" people to protect/guide them and their religion, thats so insecure and lame ass and that's my opinon. anyways over and out.

-G.

Anonymous said...

//nalla thanni adichtu chicken mutton saaptu nee 'harsh truth' pathi expert comments vidaathe.//

S, I have not been to sringeri and I do not do any of the forementioned and even if some one does that, why should not they comment on these fake/fraudulent persons? If you are talking about crossbelts, crossbelts lose their crossbelt status when they travel abroad or cross the seas just so you know since you are not a cross belt. now get back under the rock u came from

-G.

Anonymous said...

1. first you define crossbelt.

2. second if i don't want to waste time with 3 times sandhyavandanam and suffice with a "spiritual but not religious" superficial practice of religion, what about a manager who runs on treadmill half hour per week and rest of the time eats sojji bajji idli bonda rava dosa upma getti chatni ? superficial pursuit of fitness mattum okayva ?

Shanmugam said...

G,

If you have never been to Sringeri and ( I am assuming) you have never been to any of the other 4 Adi Sankara Mutts as well then you do not know anything. So by claiming to know some 'harsh truths' you are making it clear that you are a liar.

I am not even a cross belt to start with. But people like you don't follow any rituals, don't freakin know anything about religion, but go on to claim that everyone else, religious institutions are fake. Unakku onnum therla na mudittu po. Therinja madhiri peela vidaathe. I agree with Suresh. You are exactly the guy whose cross belt needs to be yanked out by a dravida kazhagam activist.

Rasta said...

anon,

2. second if i don't want to waste time with 3 times sandhyavandanam and suffice with a "spiritual but not religious" superficial practice of religion, what about a manager who runs on treadmill half hour per week and rest of the time eats sojji bajji idli bonda rava dosa upma getti chatni ? superficial pursuit of fitness mattum okayva

what sort of a nonsense question is this? it is not even a question but 2 sentences put together with no logical structure. enna solla varaan ivan?

Both are bad.... adhukku ippo ennangra? In 6th std we ask 'avan pee thunna neeyum pee thunnuviya?

Suresh said...

Ganesh babu,

Going by your logic all academic institutions who guide students, parents who guide children or for that matter coaches who guide budding cricketers and any sort of coaching mentorship is sad and lame.

dei .. unakku logical skills illanu engalukku eppavo theiryum. Stop commenting. Please. You are the fraud brahmanan who needs to be exposed.

Anonymous said...

rasta, understand that if you pursue x fulltime, anything that is not-x can only have superficial pursuit. you cannot be fulltime manager and then also do 3 time sandhyavandanam and then have srk sixpack abs also, especially when you are a seriyana sapattu raman. like sv says, adhu yeppdi orey aal engineer aavum doctor aavum lawyer aavum vara mudiyum ? so given that you are a sapattu raman , either you stop running on treadmill, or stop telling me that my "spiritual but not religious" attitude is superficial. because if that is superficial, your whole bloody life is superficial.

Sreekrishnan said...

on the other hand, A SANYASI is the one who is supposed to follow austerity and accepted that in his life ... not a "Spiritual Guru". Did Nithyananda get sanyasam or did he ever proclaim to be one? - which itself is a process.
Getting Sanyasam is done under a guru - and they generally are like the Jeeyars or Andavan. There is a ritual - a test of eligibility of sanyasam, your track record of being a Brahmachary and Kudumbasthan, They take into account of all those and then put you into the part of sanyasam. Atleast i know thats how it is in Andavan Ashramam and heard abt the same in Ahobhilam. Thats pure religious stuff. What nithyananda did was not that. he was a random guy teaching some random way of life quoting all that he can. So, getting all too emotional about it is misinformation on our side.

its the difference between a "Kanakku" vs a Charted Accountant. Or VaidhyarAyya Vs Doctor.

If we just didnt know the difference, Sun TV will play with our emotions.

infact this wasnt even Porn. Ranjitha had more exposing and compromising scenes in her movies.Was just pretty lame.

On a different note: Supreme Court mentioned pre marital sex and live-in [not the jean] relationships are not offense and infact opposing it would take the fundamental right from a citizen.

Anonymous said...

//Going by your logic all academic institutions who guide students, parents who guide children or for that matter coaches who guide budding cricketers and any sort of coaching mentorship is sad and lame.//

what kind of moronic, twisted and warped statement is this? are you for real? did the discussion ever get outside religion? this is the most fcuked up analogy one can come up with.

//dei .. unakku logical skills illanu engalukku eppavo theiryum. Stop commenting. Please. You are the fraud brahmanan who needs to be exposed.//

Wow!! What a stupid statement, where does Brahmanism come in to here? The other S started the crossbelt non-sense and I replied back to him. Hawk has an opinion and I have a different one, which according to him can be moronic... Just because our opinions differ You cuss eh? How real... Tell you what you can take your twisted, warped and fcuked up logic to a corner and amuse yourself, better take the other S with you if you need company :-)

-G.

Hawkeye said...

G,

(I would not have commented if not for the swear words)

dei tone down the swear words. Opinions can differ but maintain some decorum.

Also your logical skills are poor. You've essentially (across comments) ended up saying that having a coach or a guide is bad only in religion but valid in every other field. I dont think you even realize that you are saying this.

Plus if you have not been to a smartha based ashram and don't know anything about it then kindly refrain from pretending that you know about some hard truths there.

Anonymous said...

ANON WHO WANTED BONAFIDE SANYASIS
G,
Thanks
SriThere,
I do not want name of bonafide sanyasis to go and fall at their feet and join them tomorrow nor for kindal pannarathuki. I am currently enjoying my role of Gruhasthan(dont correct me for spelling) thank you very much. I would like to know if there are any more left out there.

Ok if you do not list one let me ask you this, out of the following popular ones who would you consider a bonafide sanyasi/guru
1. Ramakrishna
2. Vivekananda
3. Ramana
4. Shirdi Baba
5. Raghavendra
6. Mahavatar Babaji (just because I am a Rajini fan)
and the more modern ones
1. Sri Cubed
2. Jaggi
3. Osho and the likes

or the person next door whom you admire.


Hawkeye,
Do you realise that this has been the most commmented post in recent times. This is like the masala topic. So for all those commmenting and discussing on this post we are all the same. We are all trying to spice up our life with things like this.

Hawkeye said...

zeno,

w/o the disclaimer Jayendrar sort of sticks out doesn't he?

vijayashankar,

:-)

anon,

/* Plus, a lot of these rituals, do not actually make sense. The only logic probably behind them is that the cast barriers had to be made more rigid. */

So this statement is a blanket one and stereotypes a bit. Most of it is about god and only some of it is about caste. it depends on which part you are more aware of. If you had this conversation with an open mind and with someone knowledgable you can expect a fair analysis and a decent argument. Whether you agree or not is secondary. At least you would learn something. A *.nanda will most probably say "good..good.. good.. good..yes.. thats right.. right..right.." and ask you to "be yourself" and be "spiritual but not religous".

Venkat,

/*why insult the cross belts ? are you actually saying that their views are solicited ?
it's a little annoying to see them being dragged into unrelated topics to be insulted..*/

see Mr. G's comments below and tell me if you didnt change your mind on this one. Cross belts are the first people to go and diss genuine ashrams. They feel they need to do this to get social acceptance. This is their way of showing they are secular and neutral. And like it or not they are the loudest of them all. Ask any penta coastal christian missionary person. A cross-belt convert is the most fanatic baptiser in the crowd.

anon,

thanks

anon,

i am a stump. but too bad you consider Jayendrar to be the only true smartha stalwart. His mutt is not a recognized sankara mutt by his peers.

praveen,

i agree that Jayndraar is probably more intelligent and well-versed in vedas/shastras than all the vaishnava sects combined. Since he has given many wonderful (and IMO the best) descriptions of Utthara Khanda in ramayana and why rama banished Seetha - I'll quote him and say "when there is doubt. there is no doubt".

gradwolf,

thanks :-).


anon,

link works for me.

Hawkeye said...

blackaccord,

thanks for the book analogy. examples always help :-). I have read the book. Don't follow it on TV. Cho is a very intelligent and courageous person. Ironically, since it criticises cross-belts the most per TRP it has more non-crossbelts viewing it :-).

venky,

thanks

Maysan,

was trying to say this in your house over lunch. But didnt come across well.

anon,

/* I still come here to read because ur articles makes me laugh */

orey samalichification.

Maddy & anon,

thanks

Mani,

it was gnawing one me for 2 weeks. especially listening to some people who claimed to know all about many ashrams when they knew nothing.

MLC,

maybe they are people who stick ranjitha posters in their room :-)

anu,

:-).

shanmugam,

when i mentioned that kamalagasan can recite all '4000' the person shot a question back 'appadinna avanukku aahankaram and mamakaram' irukka koodathe. sariya kathukaliyo ennamo'. namma ellarume andha mathiri dhaan.


raghu,

thanks. I posted this after coming back from your house.

anu,

they won't :-). the guy who is running it has strict instructions to only post pro-pakisthan/china stuff.

the thing about chinmaya mission is new. parents who arent careful with children deserve this though.

hari,

nandri,

ganesh,

if we replaced 'samiyar' in your sentence with a caste/religion/race name you would come across as your true self.

kunta kinte,

thanks

ganesh,

/* Cross belt or No-cross belt that is the harsh truth my friend.. .*/

what are you - a cross belt who has done one 'sandhi' since the time you had upanayanam and one who can't recite a sloka to save your life? what makes you think you know anything about 'harsh truths' or that you deserve any better?

kaipullai,

/* is that there is no single authority in Hinduism. There has never been and there would never be. There is no single authoritative institution which could question or disapprove if necessary a self proclaimed swami.*/

correct. this is the biggest problem. Not that it is an easy problem to solve as it can lead to 'license raj' scenarios. There is no one org which owns Hinduism as a patent (or some such thing). This makes it impossible to sue others for defamation. Because there is no such thing as this we have to deal with Rajan Zed?

Sri said...

http://tinyurl.com/yfyumy5

Hope it helps

Raghu said...

Hawkeye - although am sure this topic was on your mind after watching it on TV, web and gaining momentum in every freakin desi gathering (espec S.I's), glad my house was the venue where it you had a tipping point to get inspired to diss this out :) !!

Knew this post would cause furore among your avid fans/casual readers and accidental visitiors to cure boredom at home/work. Hence my re-visit again to read the interesting comments and completely get enlightened - ROFL !!

However I would love the opportunity of discussing this and more in person. Would luv to have yr illustrious bro & Anu to get their take as well...;) !!

Sachita said...

yeah right, all the students, maamis doing 108 pradakshanams, chanting sahasranamams for all the gods, doing shetradanam, the queue waiting for few hours in nanganallur or waiting for few days in thirupathi or hugging the mathas, doing seva to your *.nanda(god Vivekanada? please to add filters) - are doing it for 'finding religion'!
Never knew that was the craze among the millions.

I always thought it was a pure case of ethu thinna paithiyum thelium - help me get this/ here, i will do this and that.

ps: no, i am not trying to find religion either. And i hate the bashing of hindus - mainly in tamil nadu.

kaipullai said...

This seems like a chain reaction to the event discussed here or maybe the other way..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8587082.stm

MaySan said...

I meant to actually say " its not something u have not mentioned before" 2 negatives la kottai vittutten!

Comments are more interesting than the blog :)

Anonymous said...

Hawkeye,
What does it take to qualify as a Guru ? Certainly there are many people who have benefited from *.Nanda's work. When it comes to golf, ofcourse still people would look for Tiger woods. Unfortunate for Accenture though. For some section *.Nanda worked for what they were looking for and some (or many) it didn't fit in their framework of Guru and Guru's work.

I'm kind of curious to know the framework (if you have) for a qualified Guru.

-bala

kumar said...

Dude ..first learn how to spell "Aurobindo " its not arabindo ...

its a great insult to a freedom fighter and a spiritual guru. Try to search for any of his books " The Life Divine " and see whether your pea brain can understand atleast one line of the book.

Great People dont need any certificates from people who dont understand anything about spirituality should not talk about it.

Trying to club low lifes like nithyaandha with Sri Aurobindo is a pathetic effort and i am disappointed by this classification.

--- a long time reader of this blog...

Anuradha said...

Bharath,
Along the same lines of the previous commenter Kumar, is it fair to crucify other Gurus/spiritual leaders (some or all of whom were/are genuine) just to prove a point?
And why does religion have to be the basis for someone to be considered a saint or a holy person?
Why the gross generalization?

~Anu

Anonymous said...

Why we should ditch RELIGION :-)

http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/03/25/ted.sam.harris/index.html?hpt=P1

Sathyaram said...

Have read lot of post including a lot of yours but have not seen anything as genuine and as valid as this post. You have hit it hard when you said age old mutts have a tradition to educate the 'pontiffs'. I (am quite sure a lot) share your views on this and thanks for putting this across. Also I liked the way you avoided the actress/affairs/names etc. brilliant

Anonymous said...

Iyengarra nee?

Anonymous said...

You have a way with words. I couldn't agree more with what u say.

- Sanjana

joanna said...

When people want to feel good about themselves or feel like they're in touch with a higher power, they tend to embrace any religious belief that is more available at the moment, without any search, any comparison, any analysis. I guess it's the society we live in that failed in cultivating the religious spirit.

Hawkeye said...

bala,

when you say "guru" - "guru" of what? Of religion, of Sanathana dharma, some arbit cult or general youtube spirituality BS?

Kumar & Anu,

I am sorry I dissapointed you both. Followers of Nithyananda may consider people who don't understand him as pea brained too. sai baba pisses me off because he is considered an avatharam of vishnu, which to me is plain nonsense. I don't see arubindho explaining his view point on the meaning of brahmasuthra. so i disregard him as a vedanthic and by inference a sanathana dharma guru. Same with *.babas. people, with no sense of history, who have drunk too much on the christian missionary propaganda of "vedanthic is for brahmins" are the ones who follow these "gurus".

Restating why I wanted to diss Saibaba (old and new) and Arubindho would mean I have to repeat the post again.

Main intention was to call out this growing looseness in definition of who can be an acharya of this dharma. Apparently there is no standard today and that seems to be acceptable to people who want no standard when things go well but want high standards and criticise harshly when *.nanda is found humping on camera.

The years of training, understanding nyaya, tarka shastram, using that as tools to interpret brahma suthram takes patience and life-time of work. These are details one has to work through in order to be qualified to propound a philosophy or preach an existing one.

These short-cut people who claim to be suddenly "enlightened" is confusing. I don't even know what religion they are teaching. for example does arubindho goes through the Rg Veda kanda by khanda and expounds the meaning? Makes me think "this is what you will get if you start settling for the *.nanda and *.baba"

I guess everybody would be at peace if Hinduism was actually defined. Or if it was considered broader than Sanaathanaa Dharma. If yes, then some syllabus as to what the definition is might help. So that some checks can be made on whether someone who call themselves a guru is worth it or not. In the 1500s people had to debate in royal courts to prove their knowledge or else they have to give up their cult and merge with someone else.

If I had my way I'd give a term for cults tht are at least tangentially based on vedanthic thought and separate every other "spirituality" cult out of it and have them take a new religion name.

Current Broadstroke definitions means vedanthic charlatans like Arubindho and Sai Baba are looked upon in the same level as Sankara, ramanuja or Madhva (or even buddha). And they call themselves the 10th avatharam etc. highly irritating.

Kanthan said...

I am not a brahmin but I agree with 100% of what you say. Lack of discipline and lack of selection proces of who can and cannot be a guru is what is causing all this nonsense.

Pondicheri Mother ashram is another buruda . ennikki scandal vara pogutho.

Rasta said...

Have always been an atheist. But this post is refreshing because of the 'anything is not solution' theme. Takes quite a lot of guts to say given how many people you have to offend along the way :-). Which I am guessing you have come to take pleasure in doing.

I am tempted to say that if I was a religious type I would be someone like you and not a *Baba or *Nanda worshipper. Be aware that most people who claim to be religious actually know no more than praying to Ganapathiji on the day before the exam. So your puristic thingie here won't land correctly with readers. I am sure your concept of acharya or religion is alien to most of your brahmin readers (partly reason why I like your post). Others won't even know where you are coming from with all this. If not for my crossbelt roommate I wouldn't have known either.

Religion is that dead my friend. What most of your readers are pursuing is some watered down version of it. You are wasting your time with the wrong people. These people will follow some crap Rajinikanth says. Thats their level.

Rasta said...

Anu,

This is first time I am hearing that Saints or Holyness need not be religion based. If saints are not based on religion then what are they based on? They are not scientists or environmentalists? So what are they? When I want to criticise Sai Baba or Nithyananda does it mean I am criticising Hindusim or not? What does he teach you that makes you think he is to be worshipped?

Sreekrishnan said...

Rasta,
i am not informed to comment on what you questioned - but, informed enough to set a base on it.

1. As i have always been saying it Hinduism was a "way of life" much before the invasions - in this "region". People just formulated best practices into one. The notion of God, is nothing but the unknown part of source of force acting on you. You call it nature, environment people around you - its you. When one person is as effective on a society which prayed for help - he became the "god". If krishna was a normal person - whom did he Pray? if he wasnt - why did he salute the Natural forces?

2. Now that Hindusim is a religion ... there are 2 parts a. Sanyasi b. Spiritual Guru. Sanyasi's as Hawkeye mentioned are those who rigoursouly follow the practices set by hinduism .. [as in promote from Gruhasthan - to sanyasi - remember Raghavendra movie? - yes rajnikanth]and serve "god". Spiritual leaders on the other hand - are like ISO. Just the body of knowledge for better practices in a different route.

3. Confusing *nanda [not *.nanda] with Ahobila Jeeyar is misinformation on [our] your part. as mentioned Kanakku vs charted accountant difference.

4. Religion is not dead, just diluted. people tend to follow the Spiritual Guru because it tends to blend in today's routine - they are liberals. and people who stick to Sanyasi are Religious. Plain !

Not sure if i was wrong anywhere - but if i was - a honest mistake ! but this is it !

Hawkeye said...

Interesting that commentors introuce themselves as "not from xyz caste".

Kumar said...

Actually there is no difference between third rate intellectuals/swamis like kanchi ilaiah and kanchi Shankaracharya(the one with the ladies) ,nithyananda .

by your viewpoint only Brahmin madams are the purest facet of hindu philosopy . try to open you eyes and see the world .


if you get a chance read his commentary on the vedas "The secret of the veda "

http://www.sriaurobindoashram.org/ashram/sriauro/writings.php

I am not preaching his philosophy. I am only telling you to read his writings. He has written extensively on Hindu Philosophy

try to spell right and dont tell me you have an MBA. tamil medium gstudents have better vocabulary and spell better.

Hawkeye said...

/* Actually there is no difference between third rate intellectuals/swamis like kanchi ilaiah and kanchi Shankaracharya(the one with the ladies) ,nithyananda */

your arAbindho is in this category as well. I would put him as fourth rate i.e one rung lower than *.nanda.

/* by your viewpoint only Brahmin madams are the purest facet of hindu philosopy . try to open you eyes and see the world */

you try and open your eyes and see that I am not trying to say this..

/* I am not preaching his philosophy. I am only telling you to read his writings. He has written extensively on Hindu Philosophy */

well you seem to be preaching. Thank you! I am not interested in reaidng his work. If I want to know more about the vedas there are better sources out there.

/* try to spell right and dont tell me you have an MBA. tamil medium gstudents have better vocabulary and spell better */

please read blog's disclaimer.

Rasta said...

Sreekrishnan,

We both say same thing man!

I say Religion is that dead my friend. What most of your readers are pursuing is some watered down version of it.

and you say Religion is not dead, just diluted. people tend to follow the Spiritual Guru because it tends to blend in today's routine

I hate to say this but after thinking about it for a while... the main thollai I got from iyeru pasanga were not from the people who went to sringeri or ahobilam. It is the Ammas, Gurus, Babas and Premamnandas, Sri Sri Sri Sri Sri. indha 'art of living' dogs kolai pannanum.

Sringeri, ahobilam put pattai and naamam all over their body but showed some discipline and kept to themselves. Although I don't know what they are chanting their discipline is atleast good to look at.

I still don't understand why these iyers go and dance to nithyananda disco when they have their own system.

Rasta said...

to drive home my previous comment, I bet this Kumar fellow is a iyeru who happened to get mixed up with Aurobindho crap and now desperately wants to justify that Aurobindho is the best dude since God.

The inherent contradiction about Aurobindho teaching vedam is brilliant.

Hawkeye said...

Rasta,

I bet he goes like "I will teach this section about Rig Veda that describes homams and sandhyavandhanam but I won't do it and you shouldn't do it either. Now in the next chapter i will teach - importance of accepting vedas as final authority. after that I will teach 'looking beyond the vedas'"

Its a package deal, rest & recreation place for french babes, kurruttu-kabothigalukku kann vaidhyam, flowers for mother photo, plus some superficial vedic discourse.

siva said...

hawkeye,
aurobindo doesn't deserve to be classified along with *nanda. U say u are not interested in reading his work and then say he is a charlatan.
The Aurobindo ashram might have degenerated in to something dubious but the man is long gone. I don't think he called himself God or any "godman" stuff. He was a spiritual philosopher. His views may be right/wrong. Who is to say what is the truth? Nobody knows. But he definitely doesn't deserve to be tagged along with *nanda.
-Siva

Anonymous said...

So going by your logic, if a samiyaar trained in religion is caught having sex etc, then it is ok for the disciple to complain?

Or it's your 'belief' that religiously trained samiyaars would 'never' indulge is sexual acts?

-speedy

kumar said...

Thank you! I am not interested in reading his work.

--- I am not asking you to learn more about the vedas. its a commentary on the vedas. people who have read the source will be able to understand the book.

Brahmins /Brahmins madams

---- Basically you don't tolerate any other viewpoints. Open your eyes before its too late. I am born Like that so i will remain like that till the end of my life.


Nandhan Nilekhani Quote...

I have very strong analytics. I can step back from the problem, detach and look at it from another person’s view.

Try to look at another point of view (other Person ) than staying inside your closed system.


I understood your point of view about the meaning of brahmasuthra and where he(Aurobindo) did not mention about it. if i get a chance i will i post his comments on it.

Good Luck

Anonymous said...

dei..ennada sollavara

SO INTHA BELEIFS ELLAM SARINU SOLLRIYA

onnum puriyeleye

plz do explain more da machi

Anonymous said...

Hawkey,

I liked your post a lot, and i mirror mambalammami's view, where my frustrations were slightly relieved by reading through your post, but i wanted to add a few more thoughts.

Recently I learned that (source : upanishad'il kathaigal a Tamil discourse by velukudi krishnan)

Vedas contain many things

1. verses which directly leads us to brahmam( mostly the Upanishads)

2. verses which indirectly leads us/mentions about brahmam (my understanding of this genre is not very good so kindly pardon me)

3. verses which don't lead you to brahmam (I was a little shocked by this) and deal with your kamya karma (this is *not* your nithya karma - which includes sandhya vandhanam etc, *or* the second type of karma(forgot the name of this) - which deals with you doing rituals like avani avittam/tharpanam, on said days) , kamya karma is for satisfying your likings. This third category constitutes rituals like sena yagam (for winning/killing enemy) puthrakameshti yagam (yagna to get a boy child) jyotishyagam (i think to attain swarga lokha) These things having been said in the vedas are true, but do not lead you to moksha , they just ensure your karma that you have earned till now are justified. This category is for people who have lesser/no belief in god and for the those who have belief in god, but still feel tied down and bound to samsaram. (I think the ultimate aim is it finally makes people feel vexed by doing this over and over again, so they in the end look for first kind)

I believe there were a couple of saints who preached the third kind, whereas greater saints like ramanuja and all the alvars were talking about the first kind.

So depending on where the individual is , whether he is a strong believer in god, and ready to purge his ties with samsaram or still dubious about/against the system) he can follow the respective saints.

I do not know if *nanda/*baba preached more on the third kind, but my guess is soo

Also It was improper the way you dismissed kumar earlier as it contradicts your earlier argument that you can comment only about things you know

Kumar,

while aurobindho may have written a good discourse about veda, you should keep in mind that chronologically ramanuja is the first person i know who has given extensive explanation about brahmasutras , corroborating his seniors in the guruparampara, and presenting it in a form which is understandable and correct.
Also if you feel aurobindho has done justice in explaining the philosophy without flaws i am sure it would have been already said so
by ramanuja before :) and i would still give credit to one who said it earlier :)

-hari

Anonymous said...

koodiya seekaram century pola

Anush Moorthy said...

LOADS of comments on this one I see...so I shall join the frey.

1. Agree with you on the swami's part of it - we want easy quick-fix solutions to problems. GO READ THE SCRIPTURES its pretty simple right?

2. Do not agree on the absence of many roads to god and the need to do sandhyavandanam to achieve salvation. The Upanishads themselves do not even once say that one should so any ritual - neither does the Gita (when interpreted metaphorically). Rituals are a beautiful way to achieve the concentration and 'ekagrata' to go to the next step of contemplation and ultimately realization. There are MANY ways to God as the Gita states: bhakti, karma, jnana!

3. Agree with the anti-Hindu stance of the media. Even though I prefer complete secularism, we do not live in a perfect world and everything is tinted with prejudice. If that is the case, then the media should report the molestations with equal gusto as you point out. Ofcourse, having an atheist CM and a set of 'evangelists' whose only motive is to convert people does not help either.

Anush

Hawkeye said...

speedy,

humping actresses happens so late in the game that it is ridiculous that this is what is used by the public as a barometer on whether a saamiyar is fake or not. It is like saying that someone is unwell after the fact when they are dead.

Frankly, humping an actress is not material enough to even get worried about. What is really offensive is (a) lack of definition of what an authority on the religion is and (b) allowing people (of any caste) who are not trained/compliant in that religion pasisng of as holymen of that religion.

Its like you know a dude who calls himself doctor, who has not gone to medical school and cannot even take a temperature. But claims to be affiliated to Apollo. And there is no central authority in Appollo to deny/accept his claim. But you get offended about his malpractice only after a patient dies.

what were you thinking?

Hawkeye said...

by "of any caste" I meant "regardless of their caste the rules are the same"

Hawkeye said...

hari,

kumar came back with an arrogant statements when i tried to explain to him. made me think he is not reading what i write but is basing his comments on what he thinks i am trying to say. so gave him taste of his own medicine of 'i wont hear you but will ask you to open your eyes'.

SriThere said...

Anush,

The Upanishads themselves do not even once say that one should so any ritual - neither does the Gita (when interpreted metaphorically).

yow! this is not true. This is misrepresentation. Which Upanishad are you talking about? Taittarya and Brihadaranyaka have sections devoted to rituals. Only if "metaphorically" means "conveniently" or"wrongly" does this hold good.

There are MANY ways to God as the Gita states: bhakti, karma, jnana

Unless they changed the Gita since i last ready it. Bhakti, Karma Gnaana are different stages along the same path. Karma alone will NEVER let you attain moksha. This is repeated many many times.

Now I know why this "there are many ways" is abysmal.

Anonymous said...

Hawk,

Thanks for the clarification. I got it now. So, the actress stuff was just a supplementary point but the main arguement is what you've mentioned.

-speedy

Anonymous said...

nervous ninties

Anonymous said...

Looks like the hawk is not getting the strike and is stranded at the other end. Looks like the match will finish before hawk hits his century.

Anonymous said...

This blog deserves a century..

Anush Moorthy said...

SriThere,

After i read your comment, I went through the entire Taittaraya Upanishad - I still cannot find a reference to a ritual!

The Upanishads themselves do not specify rituals. Any book on the upanishads will introduce them accurately - The Vedas specify the rituals that people are supposed to do - karma kanda; the upanishads are not concerend with rituals but with wisdom - jana kanda. You should read Shankara's commentaries on the Upanishads. Eknath Eshwaran's simple translation (with a nice intro) also helps.



" Karma alone will NEVER let you attain moksha."

That is incorrect. In fact, there are clearly three paths, and various commentators advocate various paths. For example, Shankara's commentary is tilted toward Jnana Yoga. I am afraid that you haven't grasped the fundamental essence of the Gita. Many commentators hold that the Gita teaches ONLY Karma marga, in fact there is a statement where Arjuna asks Krishna, which one of the paths he is advocating is the best and Krishna replies that amongst all the paths, the path of doing your duty is the supreme.

You should read excellent commentaries on the Gita that are available. Lokamanya Tilak's Karma-Yoga Shastra/ Bhagvad Gita Rahasya does a wonderful job explaining the various schools of thought - though he himself tilts the argument toward karma yoga.
Commentaries by Shankara, Swami Chidbhavananda, Yogi Yogananda are good reads for various viewpoints.


Anush.

SriThere said...

maybe hawkeye can hep me here. Karma yoga is the lowest in the heirarchy and doing that leads to the other two on stage-by-stage basis.

I don't know about other commentaries. Sankara's commentary certainly does not say you can achieve gnana yoga without karma yoga.

Anonymous said...

just making sure it nears 100

Maha said...

century!!

Anonymous said...

Seems like some of you have read about the Upanishads. I was wondering if anyone could recommend a good translation of the Upanishads. An online search leads me to a zillion versions by different authors. Thanks.

MLC said...

aaagaa .. nityanandha saamiyaar-a (poli saamiyaar!) irundhu unga century ku udhavirkaar:-p

blackaccord said...

The post and the ensuing discussion was really interesting.. lots of questions still unanswered..

yaar yaaro ipl la century adikkum bodhu, hawkeye century adikkardhu periya vishyame illai.. btw, ipl3pathi oru post-um illaiye?

Anonymous said...

would you have felt better if he didn't claim to be Hindu, but still gave advice to other people on life and such? I still don't see what is wrong with him having an affair with an actress. There is nothing in Hinduism that says that sex is wrong (note India's current population). And hooking up with an actress doesn't really make him an idiot.
Plus, going to school for 20-30 years (or whatever) on the Hindu Vedas doesn't really mean that you know any more about life and living than someone who hasn't. Hinduism is a VERY OLD religion...most of whose tenets are highly outdated.
And of course, no one is going to arrest him! He hasn't committed a fraud or stolen money from anyone. He has provided a service of advice for which people paid money...now, there can be thousands of arguments about whether or not such advice was legitimate "Hindu" or "Muslim" or "Alien worshiper" advice...but it was guidance nonetheless.

blackaccord said...

I wonder if this gets any attention??

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/06/world/europe/06church.html

blackaccord said...

complete link..
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/06/world/europe/06church.html

Ambi said...

@Hawkeye:

I liked this post of yours much.

I don't have the patience to read through the comments again, but seems like there are some people who don't the difference between caste and religion. Oh well!

@Anush Moorthy

"Many commentators hold that the Gita teaches ONLY Karma marga, in fact there is a statement where Arjuna asks Krishna, which one of the paths he is advocating is the best and Krishna replies that amongst all the paths, the path of doing your duty is the supreme."

This is exactly what you get if you stop reading the Gita beyond that Karma Yoga chapter.

Ever read the verses BG18.65-18.66?

Anonymous said...

"italian-pumped-in-money to Nagercoil churches and missionaries"

Why single out Nagercoil? Is it because it is the most literate town in India?

what good did the church do, apart from evangelization?
did they not run schools? did they not run hospitals? did they not provide fodd for the poor?
we people should spend some money (a ruppee or dollar or whatever) for the poor and the needy. Then we don't need the churches to come in.

what good did the missionaries do?
they spent their time and energy. people who write and read these blogs, if they spend 1-hr everyday for the poor and the downtrodden, India will be a better place.

Anonymous said...

Only an authority can put a disclaimer like that. I am sure you are no authority on anything. Think twice before you comment on anyone. Otherwise, it looks like a prejudiced statement. It is as if you have added it to make yourself appear secular, like most of the press.