Wednesday, July 21, 2010

Vairagyam - Updated

Iyer Vs Iyengar :-)


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32 comments:

SathyaRam said...

Read it earlier in another blog. Being an iyengar there is some pride in this (though not all Iyengars can claim credit)....

Have listened to some of Velookodi's discourses and thought he is a great person...

Anyhow the irony is Vaali/Kamalhaaasan are also Iyengar who are ready to do anything

Hawkeye said...

i posted mainly in jest to poke fun. whatever velukudi does - it is to his credit, I dont think others can take credit based on what he does. Inspired maybe.

although kalyanaraman's speech seems to be a little immature.

SathyaRam said...

in fact it was the same fun we had with some people in iyer/iyengar for this episode.....

no comments on Vaali and Kamal?

Karthik said...

Maybe it's not Iyer Vs Iyengar. It's between Advaita vs Vishishtadvaita. Trichy Kalyanaraman sees God in everything and equates Karunanidhi to God and Velukkudi maintains God & rest-all adiyen concept :)

Hawkeye said...

karthik,

too much :-)

Sathyaram,

I think both Kamal & Vaali are knowledgable to a decent extent. Kamal seems to have this pidivatham as a result of his misplaced expectations on religion. He Follws the steretype of hyper-religious becoming totally atheist. In his favor - it is hard to be brahmin + ultra-religous+ actor. So even though he started off religious, he was headed this way in any case.

Vaali - i have less knwoledge to speak of. Do you know he has written a book on ramanuja.

plus IMHO karunanidhi is not a anti-theist. at least not anymore.

Alan Smithee said...

Which magazine is this from?

blackaccord said...

vaazhga iyengars.. valarga vainavam.:) Narayana... Narayana...

கிரி said...

Narayana....Kalyanarama....

Kavuththuttiyebaa....

Hawkeye said...

alan,

dinamalar.

sreekrishnan,

indha 'I' payala kaanume..

giri :-)

Anonymous said...

I'm surprsed at Trichy Kalyanaraman's thuti for Karuna.. If you get a chance listen to his Mahabharatha.. He was indeed very good.. Of course Velukudi belongs to the top of the chart..

-Ganesh

Anonymous said...

Hawkeye,

The term 'veera vainavan' is not quite correct. There are 'veera saivas', so using 'veera' for vainavam brings some connections between the two which do not exist. All this according to Sri Velukkudi Swami.

Anonymous said...

the tags are funny ... especially ... "DMK'il Kalyanaraman" LOL

Maha said...

What next? Sivaramakrishnan Vs Srikkanth records?

Krishna said...

Its amazing that you try this sort of sarcasm today. 3-4 years ago was ripe for such posts. Today, the 'rape' post is proof enough that people (atleast the ones who comment) completely miss your humour and take everything you say waaaayyyy tooo seriously.

any other blogger can write such comparisons and get away with it. not you! live with it!

White Rice Vellachami said...

I think both Kamal & Vaali are knowledgable to a decent extent. Kamal seems to have this pidivatham as a result of his misplaced expectations on religion. He Follws the steretype of hyper-religious becoming totally atheist. In his favor - it is hard to be brahmin + ultra-religous+ actor. So even though he started off religious, he was headed this way in any case.

How do you know this dude? Have you read any old interviews or something? Like good ol' Henry Hill as far back as I can remember Kamal has always been atheistic/agnostic. Just curious mate, I hope you'll find time to reply.

Hawkeye said...

i know it thro other ways as well.. but it is public knowdge as well. he says this in every interview of his during his 50th year thing. he opened this topic whether people asked him or not. his AV interview was "naan kulithu vittu eera thuniyoda theertham koduthavan"

He can recite prabhandam w/o needing a book. you need 7-8 years training for that.

Sreekrishnan said...

Hawkeye Sir, That was Black Accord - and i think i am just commenting ...

But, i repeat What BlackAccord had to say :)

PS: I dont think it was anything but winning over audience ... The first person adopted one approach and second one adopted another. My Friend always says Iyengars have an ahangaram that makes the surrender only to the One .. and not others ... :) somewhere she is true !

SathyaRam said...

Iyengars are expected to surrender to one and only. But not many Iyengars are like that. (That was my original comment on Vaali & Kamal.). So within the group if Velukudi is able to live upto his principles it is definitely great.

Suggesting that 'people who dont have children are refering themselves as Amma' is not to please the audience but ......

Sreekrishnan said...

SathyaRam ... Vaali and Kamal are in a way like that ... think about it ;)..Thats why they are still referred here !

Sreekrishnan said...

and may be ... "Amma" is an Iyengar too ... there is an angle as to why Velukudi never spoke the otherway !..Never take an Iyengar for granted - even if they call themselves atheist ... Ulkuthhu illama irukkavey irukkathu !

Jokingly my paati refers this as "Sozhan kudumi Summa aadathu !"

Mukhilvannan said...

திருச்சி கல்யாணராமன் பிழைப்புக்காகப் ப்ரவசனம் பண்ணுபவர்.
நரஸ்துதி ப்ரவசனகர்த்தாக்களுக்கு இயல்பான ஒன்று.
“திருவுடையாரைக்கண்டால் திருமாலைக் கண்டற்று” என்பார்கள். முதலமைச்சர் திருவுடையார். அதனால் திருச்சி கல்யாணராமன் அவரைத் திருமாலாகக் கண்டார் என்று நாம் நினைத்துக் கொள்ளுவோமாக!
வழிப்போக்கன்

Hawkeye said...

i somehow strongly feel that iyengars who focus on the caste thing are not focusing on the 'one', are not religious and are more of trouble makers.

a truly focussed person wouldn't bother about caste or even acknowledge that it is a worthy thing to be aware of.

I was in a prabhandam class where a mudaliar boy did a kick-ass reciitation and knew so much whereas all these so-called iyengars were loafing around in tasmac

White Rice Vellachami said...

C'mon dude! Don't be a self-loathing iyengar ;-). I thought you were better than that.

White Rice Vellachami said...

In fact, barring one or two of my Iyengar friends none of them focus on "The One". I never worry about them. There is nothing we can do to change them or stop them.

Like Velukkudi says, we should try our best to surrender to the Lord and forget about the rest.

I said...

Heh. This is only Kalyanaraman v Krishnan.

Also, Vishnu may be the hero but Sivan is the director.

White Rice Vellachami said...

Also, Vishnu may be the hero but Sivan is the director.

Ya he is the "director" like Sundar C was the "director" of Anbe "Sivan".

;-) :D

I said...

No, like Balachander-Kamal and Mani Ratnam-Madhavan.

Too bad no official stats exist for the number of Iyengars who are descendants of Iyengars converted from lower castes by Ramanujar.

blackaccord said...

enakku therinju hero worship thaan irukku.. director worship illai :)

Hawkeye said...

I,

more importantly stats on creamy layer smarthas who converted leaving the less bright behind.

SathyaRam said...

Ramanuja protected and defined Vaishnavism and was the great social reformer ever to have been born in India. But Dravidian history hsa eclipsed his contribution.

Nappinnai NC said...

First one should know what ahankAram means! Making statements that iyengars surrender to only 'One' does not conclude iyengars have ego. A person with self realization doesn't have ego. Ego is nothing but confusing the body as same as the atma. SriVaishnavism goes by atma!!!

Caste business comes from the samskrt part and not from Azhvars prabandham! To learn the samskrt vedas, only the first three varnas are qualified. There are many interpolations,extrapolations and what not in the samskrt part. Who is a brahmin? A brahmin is one who gives Brahma gnyAnam. Shankara, Ramanuja and Madhwa have only invoked the name 'nArAyaNa' in their main samskrt commentaries/works.

The word iyer, iyengar itself only 4-5 centuries old. Before that there were only smarthas who are of two types, one worshipping Vishnu and the other shiva.

I belong to a SriVaishnava family. Can i honestly say 'i'm an SV'. No, i have many drawbacks/flaws in me and SV is one who doesn't harm any creature through body, act or mind. There is a beautiful work called Sri Vachana BhushaNam, in which there is one sutra which says 'it is rare to find such a person'

We need to assess ourselves and not others.

SriVaishnavas don't give abhivadam etc. That's only for samskrt ppl. We only say 'adiyen ramanuja dasa/dasi' irrespective of caste, gender, age, position, etc

There are many Jeeyars/upanyasakas in SVs who are equally as great as Sri Velukkudi Krishnan. There are two things: bhagavad gnyAnam(knowledge of the brahman which goes by scientific spirit) and bhagavad bhakti which is pure devotion. People get confused between the two. Its upto the individual how he wants to enjoy Him and no one has any right to comment on that relationship. It is similar to a relationship between married couples.

But gnyanam part, one has to have the mental faculties to come up with sound statements and also argue/debate in a healthy and scientific way.

Sri Velukkudi's thamizh is fluent. So he attracts the current generation. If one had listened to other upanyasakas, one will not make a statement that only Sri Velukkudi is great. I listen to different upanyasakas for different works of Azhvars.

Hawkeye, this is for you. There is something called 'sAttvika ahankAram'. Every other SV is my relative in fact superior to blood relatives. If you achieve something, doesn't your mother feel proud of you? Similarly, there is nothing wrong and also it is justified if i feel proud of what Sri Velukkudi does. But one shouldn't compare ppl saying 'Sri Velukkudi is better than X,Y,Z blah blah blah'.

I never say i'm iyengar. We always say we are from SriVaishnava family. I don't know about other families...

Just shared what little i know.

Nappinnai NC said...

Hawkeye buddy, there is lot of ignorance here wrt vedic system and what is the qualification to join the camp of Ramanuja.

For those ill-informed 'I(somebody with this ID', let me give some tips. All iyengars need not be SVs. And all SVs need not be iyengars. When i mean iyer/iyengar,or rather i prefer to use the word smartha, it is physical. They have to be brahmins physically as per the varNa Ashrama dharma. It is like a genetic factor, you can't get converted/gene transfer!!!!!!

When I say SV, it goes by atma. For atma there is no conversion either! Get this straight into the head.

From physical aspect, one can easily identify a smartha(be it iyer/iyengar) by his/her gothram...

Iyengars in general are a small group. On top of that Sreekrishnan's understanding of iyengars is 'infinitesimally' limited.

Surrendering to One(in the case of SV, it is only Narayana) is like 'pativrata'. A wife doesn't sleep with every jack ass on the planet other than her own husband and vice versa. Don't confuse spirituality with general and mundane affairs. A wife respects all men but she doesn't confuse all men with her husband.

Maybe some of you guys need to watch the movie 'Indecent Proposal'.

An SV respects all, but worships ONLY Narayana. I don't know about a shaivite's mind!

Even a sannyAsi from Advaitic mutt like Kanchi, always ends his talk with Narayana uttering it three times!!! Because HE is the only One who can grant salvation.

Hawkeye, you should be beaten up for starting such topics!!! Just kidding. SV sect is very small. Lesser the crowd, the better...